Building a bennndy dome

topic posted Fri, April 4, 2008 - 7:10 AM by  Ash of the Dark
Hi all! I'm considering building a 20 foot dome by bending long struts of pvc. I've been thinking I can make the center arcs about 30' long (6x 5' connected poles of 1" pvc for portability), and the side poles about 20' long. This will be a dwelling for Burning Man, so I will be re-barring its base circle (circumference of 60') like crazy, and attaching guy wires to the sides.

For connectors, I would use 1 1/4" pvc cut into 2' lengths. After inserting the poles into the connectors, holes can be drilled through connector and poles, and zip-ties inserted and fastened, to keep the poles from flying apart.

Is there anyone here who thinks this is a bad idea, structurally speaking?

I am also considering ways to build the skin, which I plan to attach with grommets and bungee balls. I know ventilation is very important, and will make sure the dome can be opened up at at least four points along the base.

I know some of you favor pvc because it's flexible, light, and relatively cheap, but that others of you do not, because it becomes brittle and can shatter (then there was the whole thing about whether or not pvc can be recycled or not). Since weight and finances are my two main concerns for this structure, I've decided to go with pvc.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! :)
posted by:
Ash of the Dark
Los Angeles
  • Re: Building a bennndy dome

    Fri, April 4, 2008 - 8:00 AM
    Sorry I don't have any experience using PVC in this configuration but I have heard mixed reviews. The PVC is not very resistant to weathering (sun) and yes it can bend and snap. It is lighter and cheaper than metal, but very much weaker. I am not sure if this would be much better than a monkey hut, and it would definitely be more tricky to cover. What about a geometry dome (1v geodesic dome) , those are pretty simple and seem to stand up well. My personal recommendation is a 2v conduit dome, but I'm biased because I already built one. Keep in mind that high wind on the playa will catch the covering and really stress your dome. If your structure is not solid enough, it will fall apart with a quickness. The 2v conduit dome weighs ~100 lbs but will stand up to anything you throw at it, including people climbing on it. A downside as compared to PVC is that it's much harder to build with (cutting/drilling metal vs plastic). If you really want a tension-type PVC structure I would probably recommend a monkey hut instead. You might also post your question to Shade Geeks or Shade Structures tribes. I would be happy to give you advice or help with a conduit dome though! =)

    good luck,
    Justin
  • Re: Building a bennndy dome

    Fri, April 4, 2008 - 8:27 AM
    So, how many 10' lengths of PVC are you going to buy? You say your main concern is cost. It takes 25 lengths of 3/4" EMT to build a 1v dome. They cost about $3.50 each so you're looking at about $90. I think you'll spend nearly as much on PVC. But, the 1v dome will last for 20 years or longer if you take good care of it. The PVC dome will deteriorate and break long before then -- probably at Burning Man during a windstorm, leaving you without a useful shelter for the rest of the event. Also, PVC can't be recycled, and its production is a very toxic operation. EMT can be recycled, or at least it will oxidize into dust in time.

    If you build a 1v dome, you can make 5 struts shorter than the others to make the roof less "pointy" and high.

    Here are some useful links:
    www.desertdomes.com
    www.timefold.com/dome

    Best of luck whatever you choose...
    • Re: Building a bennndy dome

      Fri, April 4, 2008 - 10:07 AM
      Just a note that I would not necessarily recommend making a 1V dome with 10ft 3/4" as I'd think it would be too flexible. I think you probably want at least 1" EMT for a 1V dome that big. 3/4" is pretty bendy at 10ft lengths, yeah?
      • Re: Building a bennndy dome

        Fri, April 4, 2008 - 1:53 PM
        I have a 1v with 9' struts -- it has been to five burning man events with no problems. You can't climb on it, but it is plenty strong enough.

        1" EMT is 4 times stronger than 3/4" EMT. It is also about 3 times as expensive. But, for a simple shelter, it isn't required.
        • Re: Building a bennndy dome

          Fri, April 4, 2008 - 4:01 PM
          Cool, thanks for the schooling! We may end up building one of these just for fun as a kitchen or something. Cheers
          • Re: Building a bennndy dome

            Fri, April 4, 2008 - 8:26 PM
            It's funny... I've had my heart set on a 1v dome for about a year now... was just recently considering building a bendy. It seems that covering the 1v would be sooo much easier, too! I would love to build one with 10' struts. Do ya think 1" EMT would hold at 10'? And if so, is there a good way to connect two 5' lengths into 10' struts? Trying to solve the problem of portability initially led me to considering pvc for building a 1v, and using connectors and zipties as stated below.

            EMT would take up less space when packing, and it seems from everyone's experience that it would be stronger, but do y'all think it's feasable to join 5' lengths into 10' struts, or should I just go ahead and get a rack for the roof of our vehicle?
            • Re: Building a bennndy dome

              Sat, April 5, 2008 - 1:28 AM
              3/4" is plenty strong enough, but if you have the money then the 1" will certainly be stronger. But, strong enough is strong enough. My camp built a 28 foot diameter 2v with 1" EMT. It was huge! With about 8.5 and 9.5 foot struts. They were really strong and the triangles were so big we didn't need to worry about making a door. :-)

              Joining halves into a whole struts is the real problem -- I've never done it. The struts under compression would be no problem. But the struts under tension would be an issue -- they would want to pull apart whatever you did to join them. Perhaps water pipe would fit inside and you could use steel pins or bolts to keep them from coming apart... but, what a pain to manufacture and assemble... If you really want a 1v you could perhaps bundle the struts up tight with bungie cords and carry them on top of your vehicle.

              If you have no choice but to use shorter struts, then I suggest you build an "optimal 2v" dome. The struts are all short (all less than 5 feet) and you end up with a 16' diameter dome with an 8' ceiling. You'll have 65 struts in the end, and it will weigh a couple hundred lbs I think. The 2v dome is easy to cover with a few strong Costco Tarps. The dome itself is strong enough that I guarantee it will be safe and sound regardless of what the playa throws at it. Yes, you need to buy 35 sticks of EMT at about $3.50 each for the 2v instead of 25 sticks for the 1v, which makes the 2v cost about $125, but consider that you can use it year after year after year. And, the 2v is a more convenient shape when done, and the fact that there are more struts actually makes it easier to hang things on the inside.

              And, for just a bit more money and effort, you can put a *deck* on top of your 2v: www.timefold.com/domedeck

              There is nothing quite like having lunch on top of your dome, looking out over the city as it is being built... I don't recommend making a deck on a 1v, but the 2v can handle 4 people or 600 lbs just fine (as long as the weight is distributed around the deck).
              • Re: Building a bennndy dome

                Sat, April 5, 2008 - 1:35 AM
                I forgot to mention, 1" EMT costs about $10/stick. 3/4" EMT costs about 1/3 as much. So, a 1v with 25 sticks of 1" EMT costs *a lot more* than a 2v with 35 sticks of 3/4" EMT. And, the 2v is a much better structure in many ways. The savings with the 2v will cover the cost of some tarps, rebar to stake it down, and the 3/8" carriage bolts and nuts you'll need to assemble it. You might have enough money left over to buy a cheap sledgehammer for pounding in rebar stakes and a pair of vise grips for removing them.
                • Re: Building a bennndy dome

                  Sat, April 5, 2008 - 2:37 AM
                  It's certainly starting to sound like 2v is the way to go! It's research and model-building time! Yay! Thank you, all, for such sound advice! Time to go and comb the various discussion threads on 2v's, too.. :)
            • Re: Building a bennndy dome

              Sat, April 5, 2008 - 3:04 PM
              Hi Ash,

              You wrote:

              ====
              I've had my heart set on a 1v dome for about a year now... was just recently considering building a bendy. It seems that covering the 1v would be sooo much easier, too! I would love to build one with 10' struts. Do ya think 1" EMT would hold at 10'? And if so, is there a good way to connect two 5' lengths into 10' struts?
              ====

              I have no experience with bendy domes, but I have seen many trashed by the playa winds.

              You have gotten some good advice on EMT, but I just wanted to let you know PVC is still an option.

              Please note that I am speaking here from =personal experience= with PVC and not saying one way of doing things is better than any other.

              You were talking about 10’ struts—BAD idea for EMT, they will bend and not bend back. PVC—no problem.

              Your 10 foot struts system would work just fine using the vertex/hub fastening technique I describe in my post on PVC 2v octahedral domes—nylon straps with cam buckles through holes drilled at the ends of the PVC perpendicular to the long axis of the PVC tubes. The post is here, or just look on the topics list of this tribe: geodesicdomes.tribe.net/thread...6ed87df

              For transport I had a pickup truck with a lumber rack that would carry outrageous amounts of PVC.

              Just another option for you to consider…
        • Re: Building a bennndy dome

          Fri, April 4, 2008 - 8:31 PM
          And hoco... the first BM I went to saw our storebought structure ripped to shreds ... My girlfriend, I don't think, ever fully recovered from that... and I am determined to fight the winds with all my handyman powers! If that 1" EMT is that much stronger, that's what I'll be getting! :)
          • Re: Building a bennndy dome

            Sat, April 5, 2008 - 1:31 AM
            I have friends with similar experiences. We have a name for them when they come back to burning man: dome owners. ;-)

            Seriously, I really do sympathize. One of the first years I went to BM there was a terrible storm on a Wednesday night. Torrential rain and winds. I heard that a few thousand people left the next morning because their tents were ruined and a lot of their clothes and food got soaked. I'm sure it was traumatic. Once you have a dome (don't forget to stake it down with rebar!) yours will be the structure to which people run when things get bad. Make sure you have whisky to share with your new storm buddies. :-)
            • Re: Building a bennndy dome

              Wed, May 21, 2008 - 4:28 PM
              Hi, coming a bit late to the discussion, but....I built just such a dome like structure my first year at burning man, (2004) . I did a time lapse of the process, it is kinda big, so if you want it, send me your email and i will mail it directly.

              I was fascinated by "gridshell" buildings. I saw one while visiting in england several years ago.

              www.wealddown.co.uk/Building...shell.htm

              in essence, they used wooden slats and deformed them into a dome like shape. I figureed I could do the same process in reverse and with PVC. I would "pop" a dome into place.
              Here is what I did...
              I layed out a grid of 1" pvc., about 24 inches apart., straight onto the playa. (30 foot x 30 foot grid ) At each intersection I very loosely ziptied the intersecting pipes together so they could still slide around.
              Once attached, I then took a 12 foot pole and placed it vertically in the center of the grid. I slid it over some rebar pounded into teh ground...

              I then attached rope and pulley to the top of the pole and down to middle of my pvc grid. Next I gathered about 10 people to help. At my signal, they all were supposed to push in on the sides of the grid whilst I lifted with the pulley.
              It did indeed "pop" into a dome-"ish" shape. We then pounded rebar around the perimeter and slid the ends of the PVC over the rebar so that the dome was locked into place.
              Next step was to add diagonals around the sides and to tighten down the zip ties.
              I threw a parachute over the top and that was it...My camp took delight in calling it "Kevin's" erection....
              It was not a very symetrical dome, somewhat organic. I came to really enjoy it. It was strong. Survived the windstorms without fail. I took smug satisfaction that the shelter systems dome across the street kept getting flattened while mine continued to survive....

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